Podcasts & Interviews

Welcome to Episode 04 of the FindFocus Podcast.

In this episode, productivity scientist, reformed procrastinator and creator of Focusmate Taylor Jacobson and I discuss how to “Stop Procrastinating & Start Producing”.

So if you want to create an environment that will make you productive when you work from home, stop feeling a lot of fear and shame wasting so much time online and avoid procrastination tune in now!

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• The most existential risk and mistake that people make when they start a business from scratch
• How to create an environment that will make you productive when you work from home
• How to stop feeling a lot of fear and shame wasting so much time online
• The “big big breakthrough that changed everything when you are being held accountable”
• Why it’s no problem if you don’t finish your to do list.
• The two big trends that define our future work
• Why we are not designed nor equipped to handle constant distractions
• The surprising predictor of early death that we all have to deal with (It’s far worse than obesity)
• How to create some real human connection when we’re working alone.
• The ridiculously effective (and free) solution that Taylor come up with…
• How this solution helped his clients to develop new habits suddenly, no longer feeling anxious or worried and even going to sleep on Sunday night looking forward to the week ahead because they know they can count on themselves to get their most important work done

Don’t want to listen to the podcast? We transcribed this episode for you! 

Martin: [0:01] Welcome to the FindFocus Podcast. Today’s episode is called Stop Procrastinating and Start Producing!  I will interview productivity scientist reformed procrastinator and creator of Focus Mate, Taylor Jacob. Welcome Taylor and great to have you on the show.

Taylor:  [0:20] Thanks for having me!

Martin: [0:22] Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, in terms of background, education and experience with focus and procrastination.

Taylor: [0:28]  Absolutely! you could say I have, informal training. My driving passion, my whole career is been human potential.You know, productivity, behavioral change but I think less nice, we have saying that.

Taylor:  [00:58] The core drive that really sparks this fashion was actually the first time I was working from home and I was in a job or a certain partially remote, partially  in an office. And I just really struggled to get stuff done when I was remote and then when I became a full-time entrepreneur. It just only got worse so you know and I’m hate it! 

[01:23] But prior to founding Focus mate I was an executive coach for about 5 years, works with entrepreneurs top startups in New York. I really got to Intensively study behavior change but also apply it in a  real-world context and see what works and what doesn’t work, what problems are people dealing with and also saw that even these high performers you know, executive clients are really struggling to follow through with a lot of stuff themselves. So that’s really kind of the real world training. I’ve actually studied economics at Duke undergrad I was a Management Consultant briefly, I was the sixth employee I teach for India which was totally cool experience but that’s  started a core of what has led me to doing this kind of work.

Martin:  [02:23] what problems are  you talked about, I’m having problems working alone and working in the home office? How was your day looking a specifically and what challenges did you run into.

Taylor:  [02:36]  Here’s what I remember the “ how it felt”  and it always felt like I wasn’t doing anything until almost a  noon many days you know,,we’re somehow those morning hours would just get filled up and sort of this angsty timeless and I have no doubt that my computer is out a lot of that time ,but it’s just was I would.  I would stick facebook in that time I would answer emails and my email is one of favorite ways to procrastinate. So that point in my life I just wasn’t equipped  to kind of deal with that open-endedness and so I just blow through that time and if I was lucky I would start to get things moving a little bit in the afternoon but it’s not,  I’m a late sleeper something I’d really be wasting a lot of time and I just also remember how I felt so much shame and I felt a lot of fear to all this time is passing me by. And I’m supposed to be starting to this company and you know I feel  I’m spinning my wheels. 

Martin: 03:55] And what do you then,  How did you try to overcome these challenges?

Taylor:  [04:01] I think probably for most people it’s really been a lifelong thing of just you learn one skill you learn one have it at a time. You know at that point intime. Frankly that the first thing I did was I was just, I felt so crippled just by the emotional burden the shame of the unproductive that I decided I just got to. First I gotta just let go of feeling ashamed because of this,  because apparently it’s hard to work alone it’s hard to work from home so that was step one. And I started reading a lot of these things I should have went into the rabbit hole is the blogosphere of productivity techniques in box and all that stuff. You know, one of my first techniques that I tried was I would just go to Starbucks start to treat it  my office for a while that was okay, at least sort of prevent it’s more conspicuous forms of procrastination

[05:05] Just eating cheerios and watching youtube videos and stuff. I mean there’s sort of a laundry list of things that I’ve done and one is so you know, my company ultimately my startup Focus mate that was really the big breakthrough started realizing that the one saying that changed everything for me was being accountable some way to other people surrounding myself for creating an environment that pulled me for it and that.  When If I want to go for a run if I get a buddy to go for a run with me even if it’s raining I’ll show up. You know, and I’ll run a little bit faster and harder and realizing that I could apply that for productivity as well so what we can come back and talk more about that. But I think the key inside is willpower really useless and if you can design an environment so that you don’t need to use willpower you’re way ahead of the game.

Martin: [06:05]  Exactly I think that’s what both our companies are all about. And you mentioned starting a business, where do you see making a people the most mistakes in their business? when they start a business, transitioning from corporate job into being a freelance or something like that.

Taylor:  [06:27] Where did people make mistakes? I think, Probably, the most existential risk and mistake that people make is not solving a real problem. For some reason we just like. We got big ideas and ideas are really exciting, and we start to think about the products that we want to build, right!.  If you’re an engineer you want to start coding and you can pretty quickly lose sight of what’s the core pain points that you actually addressing for people. And frankly, even if you don’t have a product, even if you don’t have a solution, like you  much better off I think if you really deeply understand that pain that you’re going after. Because, sure people would buy something if it promises to solve their problem even if it doesn’t do that good for a job versus people will not buy something that could be a beautiful piece of software but if it doesn’t report solve real problem then people won’t buy it. I think that’s far the biggest mistake people make .

[07:49] Then  once you’re in execution mode, I think we will easily get distracted you know, we were just talking before we started the show. Is it marketing is the classic example where there’s literally unlimited number of things you can do for marketing and you know, when starting a business your job is to do everything and yet your job really is to figure out what’s one thing that’s most important that’s going to move your business ahead and forget about literally everything else even though it’s really painful.  I’ve got to say you got to let, got to let a lot of small fires burn. And don’t grab the fire extinguisher the hose you just let him burn because you don’t have time for that you got to just choose that one thing. So, I think that’s really common mistake as well if it’s just start trying to do everything when you really can’t and shouldn’t.

Martin:  [08:45]   I think that’s totally right and it’s so hard to do for for me and myself. We get bombarded with all this great content what kind of marketing there is and what kind of marketing channels we could use and track and about if you’re not helping anybody. What do you want to to amplify what do you want to use the marketing for and so I’m thinking it’s really about the pain that you solving and your maybe you can tell us about your solution I think that’s a bunch of its called virtual coworking and the solution you build to to overcome this challenge of procrastination.

Taylor:  [09:25]  I think your points really good though let me come back to that but I just wanted to give you an example, I mean I think my core weakness is I would be sort of like OCD about doing my to do list and I’m sure there’s some listeners out there feel that same composing, right!  where you you feel you’re getting things done when you do your whole to-do list. And now you know, I don’t think I ever finished my to do list, the next day comes and then you know I’ve try and I try I try to ask myself “okay! what’s the most important thing I need to do today?” and you sort have like this little moment of heartbreak where you just “Okay 8 other things that I didn’t do! ” no I’m not going to get you today or maybe ever. So anyway, I just wanted to paint that picture on a slightly more personal level.

[10:27] So, virtual coworking! thanks for asking. So, I think taking a step back, I think  there’s two really critical pieces or trends going on in the world, right! one is that we are just so freaking distracted. We are human beings are not designed for not equipped to handle constant distractions and stimulation in options that we have to just get a quick, head of satisfaction and it feels good to check facebook, but it really feels bad ultimately to just not do the things that you really want to be doing right!. And the data on this is terrifying, you know people who are out there listening and feeling you know. 

[11:15] They are the worst! This is increasing this is everybody, everybody is procrastinating everybody’s distracted ADHD scripts have gone up four times in the last 15 years or so. Chronic severe chronic procrastination is now over 20% of the adult population, so you can start over imagine what that implies for middle of the bell curve normal people everybody’s procrastinating.  So that’s number one is just for all really distracted 

[11:50]  Number two is where working alone in the offices have stuck around for a long time but that’s starting to change actually. About a third of computer workers are now predominantly remote and of course we have  people taking courses increasingly online now so you’re not going to a classroom or campus anymore you’re just sitting at your house maybe like after work trying to chip away at that course people are trying to start businesses on the side and other the side hustler so to speak. so you have these really big and growing cohorts of people who are working alone and it’s actually really unhealthy and unnatural. I saw this data point that blew my mind recently that loneliness is a greater predictor of early death than obesity. 

[12:50] This is kind of the new world that we live in.  We’re distracted and we’re alone and for those two things get together it’s just the tsunami of bad news for our productivity. Our goal we know we talked about building a virtual coworking products, that’s our business at Focus mate, our goal is to solve those two problems. Let’s not be distracted and let’s create some real human connection when we’re working alone.  

[13:24] And so our first test if you will, I won’t even really called a product that first test was we. We basically set up two users, who sit side-by-side remotely over video call will they both get work done so it’s sort of study buddy.  I actually alluded to going for a run with a friend. In this case it’s not, it’s not a collaborative thing you’re not chatting with each other there’s no coach and client it’s actually peer-to-peer accountability partners who you know show up and sit with each other while you got your work done and it’s just  it’s a ridiculously effective. Format or environment can we talk about environment see you help you get stuff done it’s kind of.

[14:20] For me back at school I would ask a friend to go to the library and sit with me because I knew that having somebody there and having that quiet environment. I was basically guaranteed to get stuff done where I live I went anywhere else there’s a good chance I get distracted so we’re sort of trying to create, that kind of environment that gonna locks you into being productive.

Martin:  [14:42] Well that’s awesome!   I found for myself I, I created my software also to change the environment on the computer and I notice I would use my software when I’m at the computer to not go on facebook or watch youtube videos. But your software, are your service being accountable with some with some real person make me actually to show up in front of the computer and that was really really helpful for me.

Taylor: [15:08]   We hear that a lot, there’s actually a lot of people that say “ You know,  I’m waking up two hours earlier to start work just because I’ve been using Focus mate and now that have these appointments you know I get out of bed and magically I’m there I am at my computer at 6am everyday getting work done” which is amazing.

Martin:  [15:25] So who are the people who typically use Focus mate?

Taylor:  [15:30] So we’ve talked about some of them,  it’s freelancers, it’s remote workers , people who are separated from their teams and their company, lots of students really every age and level,  people whether they’re just taking an online course or they’re doing their masters or they’re part of an online university, alot of entrepreneurs and side hustlers. It’s tough especially if you have a day job to make yourself show up at the computer either before work or after work on the weekend. Those people use Focus mate to just what I want to, I want to bang out for hours on Saturday! so I’m going to use Focus mate.

Martin: [16:17]  Can you share some specifics how the software helps, maybe something or  some pictures or what do you do to to help people get into the process of virtual coworking?.

Taylor: [16:29]  Let me turn describe what happens on a Focus mate session. When  you have an appointment.  So, today it’s actually very simple and we can talk about to where we gonna going, but the  focus mate appointment is a 15 minute appointment and  when you show up you spent about 60 seconds and you greet your partner and say “ hey Martin!  good to see you, what’s your goal for this for this hour” and you tell me “ “You know,  I have to edit this podcast” or something right and then you write that down, we have a chat interface and then you’d say “ Alright Taylor! what’s your goal for this session”  I’d say “ You know,  I’ve got to go to follow up with Martin and you know to ask him for an introduction or something you know “ and I would write that down as well so and then.

[17:28] So 60 seconds or so goes by we both specify exactly what we’re going to do we both written it down. By the way there’s lots of research that shows that really helps and then work just quietly working we get to work we leave the video on a lot of people will either use a dedicated device so that they can have that video up with their tablet or their phone or I have two screens which is really nice and every time you finish a task you’ll update that in the chat you know, you’ll say, “ Alright I finished that”  and you’ll write down what your next task is.

[ 18:01 ] You  have a little timer there so you can see the 50 minutes going by and then session ends. serve the end of this intense productivity sprint, it ends and you’re, “Hey! Martin and how’d it go?”  you know when you have this little you this moment of reflection which another there’s again more research that shows that stopping to reflect periodically is really the eyeball for productivity so you do that together as well you reflect on how it went and you kind of get to have them shared moment of celebration as well. Because you just cranked some important workout for 50 minutes.  That’s what happens in an appointment you know, if you sign up for Focus mate what you’ll see is basically a calendar in your face where you’re just saying. “Hey! these are the times that I want to get work done!” and part of what we are and what we offer as you don’t have to think about anybody else.

[19:00] You are just saying this is what I’m free you schedule your session then we take care of the rest and we’re heading is really creating a custom experience so that the people that you’re working with, the style of work so they do, do you  really like to have a quiet session? or do you really like to have a slightly collaborative session? do you want to do just one-on-one? Do want to do a small group? do you want to work with somebody who’s working on something similar as you ? .

[19:24] So that’s where we’re heading is almost  a social network for productivity. Really, a tailored tribe of people of co virtual co-workers  that you love and can count on and I really supportive for you.

Martin: [19:40] how many people are in this tribe right now?

Taylor:  [19:46] I think our Facebook group just stopped 1300 people this week so. You know, growing fast.

Martin:  [20:00] What your favorite success story that somebody may be shared in the Facebook group or emailed you or something that what kind of success do should do people see when they use it? 

Taylor:  [20:13] You know  there’s way too many to count and or even play favorites. But one that was just post just a few days ago, this woman she was working on her master’s thesis and she was really starting to freak out because she was so far behind schedule and this was you know, I think she must have graduated or finished completed her thesis just a few weeks ago and she only joined Focus mate maybe 3 months ago so she was really far behind schedule and she just shared a photo of herself  with a glass of wine sort of and some certificate that she share to toasting having finish this thing and she basically said “ You know, I was nowhere near gonna get this thing done  and focus mate just totally turned it around and I just got really productive and I crushed it and delivered my Master’s thesis on time”  So,  we see stories like that often times.

Martin:   [21:19] That’s  also I remember I  getting an email for somebody using my software and it’s got this eager stand that I procrastinated for 8 month or something within the week of using my software it’s really good feeling to know to solve this pain point that we talked about earlier and really  help people to solve for problem there.

Taylor:  [21:45] And actually sometimes the best emails I’ll get are from people who they’re really vulnerable they don’t always post these on facebook but they say “You know I was really anxious” or is really worried or “I was really to know I was beating myself up I was”.  start to relate to ourselves as we relate to ourselves as procrastinators but we also use much worse words in our head to describe ourselves and so a lot of people to reach out and say that they sort of turned around that narrative and They don’t know their feel a procrastinator. They’ve developed these new habits suddenly and and they’re no longer anxious or no longer worried you know, they go to sleep on Sunday night looking forward to the week because they know they can count on themselves to get their most important work done that. Hearing that, that feels really good.

Martin:  [22:42] How much I do you charge for it for your service? As I think a lot of people

would like to try it and maybe afraid of, afraid to spend a lot of money on that.

Taylor:  [22:52] Well there and lock Focus mate as free. So no reason not to give it a

shot Focus mate.com

Martin:  [23:00] Okay! that was my next question where people  can get started and

how can people find out more about you and what you do it’s I think it’s Focusmate.com right!?

Martin:   [23:14] It’s focus mate.com. You know, it so you can check out our website lots of information on there and also have a facebook group which you know if you want to see what other people are saying. You know you go can on our website and can I have to take my word for it, there’s some testimonials but the great thing about our facebook group is that’s the community with real people you can pop in there and just listen. You’re not gonna  be a wallflower for a little and you’ll see how it’s an incredibly positive and supportive group of people and we’ve been talking about, creating an environment that helps you be productive. Well. an environment like your software prevents you from going somewhere, tracks how you’re doing, Like tracking things helps the focus mate interaction with that partner that’s a great environment but part of your environment is also the community that you’re part of in. The people that use voices in your head when you’re debating something or who you know you’re going to see tomorrow and have to give an update on how things are going. So when you have a really supportive community that actually creates a really positive environment as well so  that’s part of what we have achieved with the focus mate facebook group and I definitely encourage people to check that out to.

Martin:  [24:40] That’s some one point I think a lot of people underestimate, and I think

24:45 have wrote about this in his book “The Power of Habit” that it actually takes belief and being part of a community creates and reinforce the belief to really change and change your habits and change the habits of a procrastination. 

Taylor:  25:02] Oh! man that’s such a good point Martin,  because where we think of ourselves, I think sometimes we relate to ourselves is almost machines that have to be optimized or something and I’m just broken you know, that word is actually that’s really make sense for human beings that makes sense for a machine is program. But, suddenly your thoughts on your behave if you go around people who are behaving a different way who have different beliefs set. You don’t even have to do anything it just starts to affect you and change your beliefs and change your habits and behavior so  it’s really the ultimate hack right, is just change your environment.

Martin:  [25:50] It exactly and I think do you have any other last thoughts for this interview?

Taylor:  [25:57]  No, this is fantastic I really appreciate you having me.

Martin:  [26:01] Thanks Taylor for being here and you think everybody for listening andcheck out focus mate it’s a great service it’s free and I really  to use it and it will definitely help you to get productive.

Taylor:  [26:15] Awesome! thanks Martin.

About Taylor Jacobson

• He is a productivity scientist, reformed procrastinator and creator of Focusmate.
• Taylor was featured in Forbes, CNN, GQ, Huffington Post.
• He believes that most global problems would get solved if everyone could do their best work. His mission is to make that happen.
• He invites you to experience the life-changing benefits of virtual accountability by exploring the Focusmate community for yourself.

More Information

Learn more about how you can stop procrastinating and start producing working from home using virtual coworking with Focusmate

Links & Mentions from This Episode:

Focusmate community of Facebook 

Thanks for Tuning In!

Thanks so much for being with us this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Please leave a note in the comments section below!

If you enjoyed this episode on Stop Procrastinating, Start Producing!, please share it with your friends by using the social media buttons you see at the bottom of the post.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app here to get automatic episode updates for our “FindFocus Podcast!”

And, finally, please take a minute to leave comment below. They really help us out when it comes to the improving the show.

Thanks for listening!

Welcome to Episode 03 of the FindFocus Podcast.

In this episode, London based certified IEMT (Integral Eye Movement Therapy) practitioner who specialises in anxiety disorders Alex MacLellan and I discuss how to quickly feel less anxious and less stressed when dealing with Social Media.

So if you want to quickly feel less anxious and less stressed, have better conversations with other people, and discover a simple sleep hack to identify the mistakes you are making AND FIX THEM and learn how to stop constantly think about your work and rest properly, tune in now!

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why making rich people richer let Alex to help people struggling with anxiety issues or suffering from stress or problems with emotional resilience so that they are able to handle their problems.
• Why internet addiction does not necessarily mean that you are online for hours and not do anything else
• A simple trick to have better conversations with other people
• How to stop constantly think about your work and rest properly
• The ideal situation to benefit from social media
• The most important time when to turn off your phone that will cause you to quickly feel less anxious and less stressed
• The reason why following famous people like Christian Bale or Leonardo DiCaprio is not the real problem but comparing yourself with the people you know
• Why using website blocker really helped Alex at work
• The secret recipe to improve when you are in a situation that you are not comfortable with in order to feel better
• A simple sleep hack to identify the mistakes you are making and fix them
• How use FindFocus’ best feature to create a time gap to have your logic and reasoning kicking in (and how you can use this to improve your diet as well)

Do you rather want to read what we talked about? We transcripted this episode for you

Martin:[0:00] Hello and welcome to the FindFocus podcast. This is a show for people who care about the work habits, the productivity, power law and all issues related to technology. Have you ever struggled with fear of missing out all feeling anxious?Well that’s exactly what we going to help you with on this week’s show, where you learn to manage your mind can control over your emotions and beat your anxiety and fear of missing out with speaker and certified life coach Alex Maclellan.Hello alex great to have you on the show!

Alex:  [00:32] Thank you for inviting me Martin, good to be here!

Martin:[00:34] Can you tell us a little bit about your background and how you’re a helping people with social anxiety.

Alex:  [00:40] Yes,  I’m a qualified therapist and coach in Bolton CBTL, concept behavioral therapy so that’s what background. I’m doing that for about 2 years as myself, my own business before then I walked for a number of different  dating coaching companies as well as others involved in sexual anxiety. And that was so very much part time, most working  around a stressful job in media sales in London where I live. So after five or six years of doing that for a living, the sort of split personality life. I decided I’d make the leap as it were to doing what I think is most important and where I can  be of most use which is as a therapist with people, why would people have anxiety issues suffering from stress or problems with emotional resilience and not feeling like they’re able to handle that problems which they have. Such a brief history of who I am and what I’ve been up to over the last few years.

Martin: [01:50] How did you get into this topic?

Alex:  [01:55] When I was working in sales. My mother quiet tell she had some Allyson disease which is quite  tricky to deal with, from his reason and there was a lot about the stuff going on in my family as well.It wasn’t so good and I was having a pretty bad time of it and I drink a lot and it wasn’t so good. So eventually I went and got help for it which is probably the best thing I did causeI  can’t afford to keep on drinking and I get awol which is actually the thing . So I got myself sorted out which was the first thing happened. I think so tired on living fairly selfishly for a year or so. Because you know what I had managed to get a grip of my own personal demons but I was still very much focused on. What was going on in my life it was a big thing and trying to make sure that was still succeeding at walk and all these things and eventually I so sick of it and just go to basic of life I was living in and really feeling if I was doing anything  worthwhile, or I was just making rich people richer and not doing much else that was good so I was tossed around already thinking about what else I could do and I remember going and getting help.

[3:11] That’s just respect me and they say people become therapists because they want to. I want to go back and help themselves and I think that’s probably quite true I was reacting to wanting to go back and save myself from all the mistakes I’ve made so I went and trained from IMT Integral Eye movement therapy and then got really interested in Psychology and cognitive behavioral therapy and chief most for refined coaching and led me to where I am now.

Martin:[03:40] Great! I recently did in some research about internet addiction and I found out that there’s a lot of emotional signs of internet addiction that relate to what you’re doing especially the social anxiety, depression, isolation, some kind of mood swings, fear, loneliness, which is often connected, to the use of social media. Have you experience death like with your clients, in your profession?

Alex:  [04:10] Absolutely!  not in the sense of addiction is in they will be on it for hours and hours  a day and not doing anything else and neglect themselves which ismarks as we say always have something to go see recent addiction problem. But social media and mobile phone use absolutely  those two things which are an interesting area clinically, when you’re looking at the research. 

[04:36] Because, the clinical research and the literature about overuse of mobile phones  could not be clear up and that’s people who have high usage of their mobile phones. More it’s about the pressure more likely to be stressed more, you have sleeping problems and sleeping problems have been infected by the modern mental health disorders, more likely from social anxiousness, a very interesting research which is I’ve been done for the last few years.  It’s nothing to do with that, but it’s about how much people like each other. Very interesting, if two people who haven’t met before I put into a room and then they have a conversation, if there is no mobile phone on either on that person or any presence of mobile phone in the room and then that conversation is quiet good . Whereas if just an innocuous or a mobile phone is introduce one that isn’t theirs but it’s just visible the two people brights themselves as liking the other person much less significantly, less than if there is a mobile phone and that’s why it’s interesting.

[05:36] Mobile phones are not so good. They are good as you can see if you’re in emergency and  you need to use this, I’m frequently speak with people whom. Because of that mobile phones the boys go walk with them. I was speaking with the directors of a company a large company of that account name but it said it’s a well-known candle brand which is very popular in the UK and America and directions for European Middle East Missionaries decided to get me in, to speak to them and one thing they all did was took that mobile phones home and they were walking to a very light smiles and then coming back, walk home with them. One of the things already had to fight for was just to say look often in a certain times to yourself  each day switch off the mobile phone and get off at the e-mail cuz it’s gonna to kill you. Perhaps it’s not so dramatic is that.

[06:40] But on social media social media is interesting . If you’re reading research about it because there’s a lots of researchers  just found that social media doesn’t seem to have an impact on People based on levels of steam or prevalence of anxiety is an impacted in marginalized and highly isolated individuals to people that got anxiety problems, new live in the middle of nowhere for example. Social media actually quite good for them cause it does connection with people that they may feel a similar to that can be good but actually for the majority of people and if you look up. Subjective experience shall we call it, the experience of the individual there is no doubt at least to my mind and in some studies out, that over this over exposure on social media does cause a lot of problems.

[07:36] To pride people’s ability to think rationally and think clearly are just on that base on levels of Stress and Anxiety. It’s not nice if you’re having a conversation with somebody face to face and that phone keeps on popping off and they have to check it cuz I need to see if somebody’s like that photo on Instagram or Facebook or whatever it is.  Sign up in a long rambling on your question social media I said, a lot I see the effects of social media on lots of button technology pretty much everywhere.

Martin:          [08:10] What’s the best way to deal with it, from your experience?

Alex: [08:17] Say from my experience, I always recommend people to a couple of things. First,  is to have at least a couple periods throughout the day where they turn off that damn phone, why are they so I always have my phone off during, breakfast and dinner because I think you know that’s the important time of the day.Were you  should be eating, should be focus on something. I want to have a conversation with my girlfriend over the dinner for instance, so I don’t want any distractions then I think it’s important to limit how much time you are on social media.

[08:53] For some things that can be good but you gotta ask yourself for what are you really gaining from it?, you got to see photos they don’t really care about or maybe feel mildly jealous about it.  Well that’s not really good, is it?. Or you get to read about, the latest things Aero some people for instance or angry about everything. It seems these days it seems in social media just becomes this big Echo chamber of the same opinion as you. But getting more  outraged so it’s not good to expose yourself to that too much. Limit your time on social media note to see you one of these just ways to do that is with something like a website blocker and I know of YouTube, a very good one for recent that we’ve been talk about and I think the way your works  is very interesting andand very good.  But it’s up to you, what essential that you using one of those as well just so you can get stuff done and so that you’re not feeling yourself and your day with, quiet frankie stuffs, which can be toxic to you and I’m not saying it’s all demon claim. And your doom if your decide to go Facebook or Twitter or Google something not all, it’s just about  having an approach of motivation. Just everything in the right amount and I think that if you can limit the amount of somewhere on the phone and you can have some time you’re own social media, news websites is for the best and it’s amazing how quickly people begin to feel less anxious and less stressed and in general just bit more content day today when they start doing that.

Martin: [10:32] Well, what I see is if I talk to people one-on-one then it’s the fear of missing out. I just want to check Facebook maybe there’s something going on then too often times it’s just an irrational fear but it’s still a fear and the signs clearly shows that this feels real so how do you deal with this fear?

Alex:  [10:52 ] Stop checking. Because here’s the thing, well so it’s natural that we want to be doing a good thing all the time shall we say right?, and it’s also not true that we don’t want to mess out on something and I can remember times when I was growing up.

[11:12] Definitely before social media is what it was today and you know your friends would be going out to see a gay gore band or something  that you wouldn’t hear about it and then the next day you feel. “Damn oh! I missed out on that! that was upsetting, yeah that sucks!”. So a fear of missing out it is real thing how you stop it, is 2 vote for me don’t. have it to begin with, so don’t be checking.  If someone’s checking that phone or thinking “oh what I’ve been missing out?” or what? why aren’t you enjoying way you are now?  that’s a much more interesting question to me what is ityou want to be different. What would stop you from what you worried about missing out on it and actually just ask yourself these questions and usually happens when people do that and then they stop going down that rabbit hole. I say is, they and they starts going “ “okay well why am I unsatisfied right now?”

[12:09] “ Why why do I want to leave this situation to go to anew one?”.  when he wants you actually find something which is much more interesting you’ll find a good answers to those questions. Which means that you can stop yourself from having that same thing next time because it may not be a fear of missing out and maybe a fear of doing what you’re currently doing. We made the affair of living while you’re currently living you know it.  I don’t think can anybody’s expecting an invitation to the next red carpet event to Landon in a facebook inbox, right? is not that’s not going to happen! so what are you afraid of missing out on? Ask yourself that question of why you’re afraid of missing out on it? and you’ll be able to engage with that much more rationally and then you have now less fear of missing out. Because you realize actually I’m just being a bit.  I’d like this to happen and I can create that air, I can just enjoy where I’m here instead of something.

Martin: [13:05]  I talked about this a lot in my verbal lives, about creating your own life and all the social media is  just all this stuff you consume passively, but if you go out there and actually decide what was really valuable in life and then try to create this opportunities and go out there and make them. I think on you part talks about in this deep walk.  The any benefit approach where of course yes you said Facebook can be useful but is the most useful use of your time.

[13:39] And often it’s not, I’m only on it have to be for business. If it’s that make sense you just can have any sorts of  spending amount. It’s interesting what you actually say there about, you look at Facebook and what’s happening out there and you look at yourself and go and create that. Also what people  have to remember is what’s on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram is a highly addictive form of that person’s life. We watch closely on issues come in here when you compare yourself to people your similar to there’s no point in saying you and I compare ourselves to  Christian Bale or Leonardo DiCaprio the two different to us they are two different the movie lifestylethousand millions of fans and wealth and only thing,I don’t get jealous when I see Kristen Bell as a boss you babe, I friend so I went to school with living this amazing house and wife amazing parties, I’d feel a bit mad about myself cause I think I knew him when he was 12 and that’s where Facebook can be quite damaging. When you see this people living in amazing life and you call the fear of missing out that you are not having that too well.[14:52] That’s a highly addictive formula on that  person’s life s there’s all the bad stuff that you don’t see. The friend of mine once said this and I found this to be fairly accurate.Is the more people post positive things on Facebook the closer they are to having a really big problem. Most of they are that’s going wrong, and it’s true and there’s something in that I believe

Martin:[15:15] Do you have any particular story where you noticed this in your life?.

Alex:  [15:22] Oh gosh! yes! yes so is a few years ago and I was probably I was really not in my best place I think it’s safe to say and there’s a guy I went to school with and I just saw post a stuff  not going to name him because you could probably find them on my friends list but this guy I went to school with, I didn’t know him that well. But we knew we were in the same year but never really have any thoughts everything off him. Man I just saw your post up and you just bought this amazing house somewhere and he had a pretty girlfriend so I didn’t have anyone at the time I was feeling very alone and very isolated actually and I just remember looking at this guy and I’ve done nothing worthwhile and all of is going wrong and I was looking  I was just looking at this guy we were the same, we were so similar and you know we were the same age went to the same school we got some of the grades. I just remember thinking how am I doing a job I hateliving in a fast in London are too small is way too expensive without anybody to go home to just feeling miserable and I’m looking there and use it the sun’s out in the house he just go with it. What’s going on? and I remember just

[16:54]  Absolutely feeling what the lowest form of life on earth about point in time and I think a few people will feel up from time to time. That’s the time I really remember thinking I should probably stop spending so much time on Facebook cause the worst I found  about myself the most time I was spending on Facebook.and it was only one I saw stop that. Then start to look at myself bit more which is a scary thing to do. I miss you when you start doing that when you actually start making good changes.

Martin: [17:23] So, are you sound  you’re still using Facebook for your business, so how are you dealing currently with your Facebook usage. How  are you using Facebook? 

Alex:  [17:40] Interesting question! when I should really get much towards to what I tend to do. Because I have a Facebook page for my business. practically, Anxiety Solutions, I got have my Facebook page and you see people have sent me messages during the night or something  that when my phone is away. Is a big tip, sleep your phone away from your bed to sleep with a lot of people put it on charge right by that bed and that’s just nuts to me cuz you’re trying to fall asleep in this WhatsApp messages or Facebook notifications going off move it to the other side of the room and if people say while I use as my alarm clock buying alarm clock for 10 bounds for 10 years whatever it is.

[18:20]  So what I do is, I’ll get up in the morning and  I have my breakfast no right to do list out for the day and sort of, have first hour or so of my day. Technology and internet free and then I will out of that so Facebook and emails off the way I’ll see I’ll go through so different groups and stuff and see if people posted anything relevant for me and then off to that I just tend not to have it open. Now I’m at a point where it’s just not something I got one, I got one it when I got a notification from somebody about something would should actually know how I speaking now you sent me a message and I got that notification so I’ll go on when that comes up during the day. But it’s not something that I do  as soon as I’ve gone on them reply to the thing I’ve replied you like I just close and I’ve manage to trained myself . What I started doing was just having rigid times to use it I’ve see years ago but, was using a website blocker throughout the day to stop myself from going on it. That was specially use for work because I was at one company where if they caught you on Facebook at all during the day you were in big trouble, so that’s what really came in. And then more more I just carried on using blockers and then I don’t need any more search laptop, just forgot to install and then I didn’t need anymore which is nice. so if you thinking about reducing it I just plan in three or four times during the day which for me would be a lot but plan those times in those the windows are checking Facebook and doing. What you want to do on that but the big question is why do you want to go on?. What you got going on that question?  always be asking myself am I actually getting out being on here?.

Martin:[20:11]  I’ve found for myself I do not have Facebook even on my mobile phone anymore.  I do everything all the work that I need basically on my computer that’s why I created myself well because that’s where I am where I’m online, but just  forcing myself to actually boot the computer and just having it in my office where I can still access all the sides and all the services and contact all the friends and people I want  is so helpful because we’re not seeing each other anymore and then that’s really helpful for me,

Alex:  [20:47] No,I think It would be helpful for everyone. I really do  if you can shut the door and contain it contain the madness then that’s a good thing. 

Martin: [21:00] Is there anything I haven’t asked you about developing your social anxiety and deal with it that you would like to share with our audience of all people  suffering from social anxiety.

Alex:  [21:12] Well  I think we’ve approached in a really stress when a students talking things about technology which I think is so important. And  I hope that the message is becoming clear throughout it but  in case it hasn’t I’ll make it very clear now and I’ll make it explicitly clear specifically about social anxiety or stress. And you’re wondering what can I do about this there’s a few things.

[21:40] People trying to tell you that you need to feel confident. It’s about feeling better.  Well it’s not about feeling better that’s the biggest lie the cell phone industry sell people it’s  about doing better , it’s about being best performing better, it’s about doing the things that you would do if you were better and that’s the first thing I would ask because if you didn’t have the problem if you didn’t have social anxiety, Or you want overly stressed. We have the time that you want to tell you doing drop you want what you want. If you have what you have essentially, what would you be doing and a lot of times I ask people that don’t go out  that night because when you have a problem or you’re thinking about how awfully it is to have a problem so that’s never going to solve anything when people tell you just need to ask the universe to help you out so whatever it is on some awful awful awful thing manipulative exploitative things.

[22:39] What you need to do something okay if I didn’t have social anxiety what would I be doing. Well I would do this, I would do that, okay! now how can we watch will doing that sort of thing and to really go into detail on this.  Okay! what if I didn’t have social anxiety, I wouldn’t care what people think of me so much, big thing okay! So what makes you care what other people think of you, how do you know when people think? well if you want to use that judgement,  I’m really understand that about yourself and I said that specifically cuz that goes back to something like Facebook and social media .Well I know I’m feeling good about myself and all that when I’m getting off lots of likes on facebook posses and all of this things. So you identify that how you know when you’re going to be better and then you plan to do those things whenever you’re in a situation that you don’t happy with and you don’t feel comfortable with, then why? what’s making yourself out of that? what you saying to yourself? And I’m really understand that and this  is primary want to do with you want to people to learn more they can go to my page and see videos I’m making all these source of things. By the general overview the most important thing is to understand, Okay “How will I know when I’m better?” “How do I know I have my problem now? ” move away from the actions that tell you have a problem now and move towards the actions that tells you don’t have a problem anymore and if you can do that to the extend you end up solving the problem and it’s a bit more complicated now it’s not easy it’s simple but it’s not easy so prepare to  walk on it but if you do then things tend to get a lot better and quiet a lot faster than most people think they would actually.

Martin: [24:27]  How long do you think it will take to  get better.

Alex:   [24:31] I’ve talked to people and we’ve done an hour together. And their whole life is changed in an hour. I watch the people while I’ve seen them for once a week for 8 weeks and it’s only on the 8th week, they are  at that place where they said “ You know, I don’t feel I have that problem anymore” so it was really subjective. I think it’s just about doing a bit better every day you can if that makes sense. Don’t try to rush on and don’t think that means this without the other it just means I am I doing something today I bet better if I did it  I submitted it yesterday and if you are great and I think you should just keep. You should be on your own stick, I think. 

Martin: [25:34] That’s awesome! and I think there’s so much advice coming on us from all different kind of sources, blog posts, internet gurus, Facebook . Sometimes people pay for this to get this information in front of you, sometimes you speak it out yourself but it’s so much and I think in the end it’s about making your own decisions maybe you do not want to be a famous actor or something, that maybe you were just. You’re having a great life with your family or whatever building a small business, whatever it is.

Alex:  [26:11] Exactly I think the embarrassment about the industries it sells the bake. It sells the bake sort of live this amazing life stalling. There’s  a guy who I’m not gonna mention but he is one of the most Insidious exploitable  awful people I’ve seen. He does a lot of videos, he targets young men, you should pull credit. And  you should go and Incredibly nice expensive car in the background or a lot of gals around him and if you think about it, you know who the hell I’m talking about.

Martin:[26:46] Here at my garage!

Alex:  [26:47] I’m not saying anything ! No I don;t know the name , That’s super attractive personality. Tons of wealth, tons of business  but that’s not gonna make him any happier. I think it is time that people got to know what just about . What would be good for you and  that is just going. I just like to go out and meet some new people and that’s what you want to walk towards to. You don’t want to feel you have to be  the next Brad Pitt or whatever it is. But you just figure out what’s right for you and you walks towards it.

Martin:[27:25] what final thoughts do you have to do to help people motivate yet to get the better life to get rid of anxiety and  having creating this life that we talking about that developing or on which.

Alex:  [ 27:41] So you know I do get very good at, just keep really understand what’s going on in your own head and I think in a nice way to do that it’s just a little. Sleep with a notebook beside your bed and every night before you go to sleep just think about what you’ve done well that day and haven’t done well that day. I think about some of the things which may be causing your stress or anxiety and pick those apart, “okay! what happened here?” “ why was that so bad?”as opposed to something else I’m really get used to thinking and then picking up stuff apart cuz you see why you make mistakes and that’s really useful then you can fix it.

[28:14] Losing mobile phone just got rid of it a couple of times a day just  to get isolating yourself from that, isolate yourself from all social media. I want to text you say before we  ended and this is a direct promotion for your blog about I see today andI think it works really well because I’m see somebody has to type in, you make it hard for people to go to the site of trying to access and the reason that’s very good is because, usually the urge to go on that site is an impulse and it’s a very strong emotional impulse and that’s why people just find a way around very quickly and what I like about you or blocker is that introduces time gap and usually during that time people’s logic and reasoning kicks in and then they can do the action which is better for them which is usually avoid the size whatever it is. So I really like that and I think that’s a good tip just to expand, everywhere because let’s say you’re trying to stick to a diet right, and then you get the craving will you haven’t eaten enough that day, and you getting a brew , but craving , then you walk faster, you see a chocolate bar well instead of going and buying it  straight on it, just think, “ okay, I’m gonna count  off 20 and if still want it as much by the end of 20  then maybe I’ll go get it.”  But just introducing a little time till I making it harder for yourself to to do the bad thing is usually good out there as well.

Martin:[29:31] Exactly that’s why I do not have any sweets in my house that are just having the gap between me going to the store buying whatever I crave in the moment. it’s enough time to get conscious again and say that it’s not that important care more about my health when they are short on craving.

Alex:  [29:55] And make it easy for yourself to do the good things. I’m leaving my car at gym which is 10 minutes away to join how much is for 2 minutes away. Making it easy for yourself to do the good things too. 

Martin: [30:05] okay thank you Alex and please tell us how can people find out more about what you do and were can they find out about, I think you mentioned the website

Alex:  [30:16] My website is www.practicalanxietysolutions.com or people can go to my Facebook page which is practical anxiety Solutions and on my Facebook page you’ll see videos and blogs that sort of things when I when I decide to put them up I was just slightly it slightly less frequently than I feel I should but she does lots of advice videos and things on that or you can go on my website and find out bit more aboutMe and walking with me and my purchase on things.

Martin: [30:51] Okay awesome thank you for a great interview Alex!

Alex:  [30:54] And thank you for having me!

About Alex MacLellan

• Alex is a London based certified IEMT (Integral Eye Movement Therapy) practitioner who specialises in anxiety disorders 
• He is a certified Life Coach focusing on a method of coaching that is heavily reliant on cognitive behavioural tools and techniques.
• He is an experienced speaker and presenter who helps people building emotional resilience, reducing and managing stress and anxiety and teaches them to approach self-improvement “properly”
• He is able to help people to change incredibly quickly. Often times within just one hour or in a couple of sessions.

More Information

Learn more about how you can improve your results with major social anxiety and get to know more about Alex at Practical Anxiety Solutions

Links & Mentions From This Episode:

FindFocus Website and Distraction Blocker

Thanks for Tuning In!

Thanks so much for being with us this week. Have some feedback you’d like to share? Please leave a note in the comments section below!

If you enjoyed this episode on quickly feel less anxious and less stressed when dealing with social media, please share it with your friends by using the social media buttons you see at the bottom of the post.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app  to get automatic episode updates for the “FindFocus Podcast!”

And, finally, please take a minute to leave us an honest review and rating on your app. They really help us out when it comes to the ranking of the show and I make it a point to read every single one of the reviews we get.

Thanks for listening!

Stare into the lights my pretties – What is the impacts of addictive technology on people, society and the environment? – With Jordan BrownMartin Boeddeker interviews award-winning film-maker and activist Jordan Brown. Together they try to answer the question how can we return to the real physical world again?Download this episode now to get started!

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• What is the biggest misconception of using technology today? 
• Why the concentration of power is a problem in our society?
• The myth that everything online is free (and the price we really have to pay…)
• Why Jordan does not have a smartphone (and what his friends say about it…)
• How to engage in deep work Jordan’s experience that all of us can relate to…
• The benefits of traveling without a smartphone and the “Art of Getting Lost”
• Why it’s very hard to make a living distributing open source software?
• What will we gain when we learn to deal with addictive technology?

Do you want to read what we talked about? We transcribed the whole interview for you.

Martin: [0:00] Welcome to the FindFocus podcast. Today, we’ll  talk about the real Impact of addictive technology on people society and the environment. I will interview the artist,  activist, musician and independent filmmaker, Jordan Brown.Hello Jordan welcome to the podcast! and thanks for being here.

Jordan: [0:19] Hello thanks for having me! it’s a pleasure.

Martin: [0:22] Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, In terms of  your background education and your experience with Addictive Technology?.

Jordan:[0:32]  I’m a Filmmaker from Melbourne in Australia. And my background with this project was, It’s started all away back in 2009. When I had an idea to develop a film about Google, using Google as a case study. To sort of explore issues that I thought was important in emerging. At that time, such as privacy and surveillance and this concept to one company coming to exercise would have tremendous influence so even control over the way people access and organize information. So in 2009 a couple of key things that sort of spend this on was the fact that Google was scanning a bunch of  Out-of-Print books and also to scanning books in general and digitizing books for themselves and some creating this online repository of books that they were monetizing to their runs on purposes and it also merging that time was sort of Google Street view was becoming quite popular I think in Australia.

[1:50]  I mean, a bunch of  scandals happening at that time that emerge light up but around 2009. That was suit of the early days of Google Street View and steroids becoming out around that time maybe a few days later. Where we had the street view car of driving around neighborhoods and photographing people’s houses and uploading that on the internet. And what’s up with an opt-out system, like if you didn’t want that to happen you had to say “No” as opposed to the other way around.

[2:21] And so I guess, I would have to just explore those kinds of ideas. What does it mean to have sort one company behaving in this way? but not only that, exerting some tremendous control in the information people have experiences online. So to do a bunch of interviews, to do some creative short film around that and I’m ended up getting bolder. As you can imagine things of addiction with what sort of thing I mean it definitely wasn’t as bad as it is now, but it was something sort of emerging on the horizon people talking about, artificial intelligence and machine learning in the way to algorithms was one of emerging to mediate people’s information experiences and personalization of experience with suit of becoming a big thing around then, 2009-2010. I think in the process of doing interviews to the film I realized that I was lot of league sort of thing and I’ve learned a lot during the process of interviewing, and so I went away and had a two-year break and just read some old books and did a little research.

[3:37] And then decided to do a film many years later so branching out. Not just exploring Google, but exploring other companies as well. And not just suit companies to do in the internet but just digital technology in and of itself,  computers and the origin of computing. And origins of the internet where that came from. Which has a history with the military. The first computer was developed by the military and same with the internet. The internet was a tool devised in the cold war, it is part of this for the Pentagon research lab, and so I think that interested me a lot more in and the film break out into this  zoomed out that my focus became a lot more.

[4:27] I guess, I was interested in the interplay between, technology and society not just sort of the specific set of technologies, but digital technology love it self served. I think that was background of the film  and how was drawn to that.

[4:41] I guess in a sad way, a lot of things have sort of taken of time from the worst even from them. And even finished in the film actually with things like the Cambridge analytica scandal. It’s just we live in a really crazy time with this techno-culture. I mean the film found me in those circumstances I guess.

Martin: [05:09] Amazing! what you do you think it’s the biggest misconception that our people have about technology and especially the addictive technology of the internet in general. How do you believe that threat us?.

Jordan: [05:27] That’s a really good question. It would be hard to say what the biggest myth is. I think there are so many in this so lightened. One of them just quickly but would be that this view this sort of techno-utopian view that digital tools liberating, and the culture that we live in now is more frail. Perhaps, you know we could have this concept that we can communicate with anyone and we have all of this information about the tips which in itself is a truth but I think it’s amaze in the sense that the other side of this, is we also have the reality that emerged and being strengthened right now, where the corporations that provide access to a communication and media communication experiences and  information experiences. Have an influence and control over our lives that say the old medium models didn’t have or their service concentration and power that exists right now unprecedented it hasn’t existed before. I think the myth there is that we should have living this in this year that’s different from others, that if it’s more, the internet is level the playing field, and there is a kind of truth of this myth.

[6:51] What were missing out on there? Is looking at power, looking at who benefits from this social arrangement and we have a handful of companies now, that exert tremendous influence over allies, in a way that the old medium models didn’t order medium alliance’s between corporate and state power that haven’t existed inception. Influential form that there in today, Google’s will inclosed relationship with the government for example. The way facebook could used to manipulate elections influences people’s behavior to get them to buy things I came to that level so. We can talk about what we’re doing online is free that all of these services that we use I prayed we don’t pay any money for the money it doesn’t cost us anything but in pack paying without data, we’re paying by disclosing very intimate and personal.

[8:08] We’re revealing of ourselves in very intimate and  personal way. To these companies and then that’s the price that we pay. That data everything to do online corrected digital trial. And those huge amounts of data being used to commodifying relationship for one thing. It monetize a social networks and advertising and so we become the product in the end. And the information about ourselves and the way these companies really intimately know us. I used to generate huge profit for them. So the myth that this is free is probably one that’s very pertinent. Maybe another is the word control we feel we’re in control. We have a smartphone crazy at the moment.

Martin: [9:20] What kind of measures have you take personally after this issues, how did you used technology? How do you use  smartphone? Do you even have a smartphone or something that or your computer likes to protect your privacy and to be in control? Because I assume you want to be in control.

Jordan: [09:40] I think one of these things it is that is coming about. I don’t have a smartphone and I haven’t actually had a mobile phone. Probably close to 10 years now and I mean I wish there was some kind of grand story to this but it was really just a facility for me. I was traveling at the time 10 years ago to the roaming fees, I can just gonna leave my phone behind. And travel around for 4 to 5 months, something like that, and really enjoy the experience not being headed some of device, and even though it was just I had some kind of Nokia brick phone. That was  quite annoying, and no it’s just felt nice to not be, to feel that you have to reply someone’s text message, and not interrupted by phone calls. I just really enjoyed the experience of not being tethered to something so when I go back to Australia I just decided to not pick it up again, and I haven’t had a phone since then. And I guess a lot has changed. Since 2007 was around the time that smartphones really started to pick up.

[11:03] It gets the sort of technological world is changed a lot. A lot of my friends started getting our phones, and so that’s an experience that’s never really had of smartphone and how to relate to that. I mean obviously, I use email I have a laptop. I’m not too tired a lot of it yet. But  this something to be dealt with.

[11:45] Because email is all I have left in a sense to sew to email people on the go, that’s my last thing I have to digital world, I feel it in some ways. It’s crippled with me, in that sense, something to be, yes! then there are times where I feel  I’m just sitting at my computer all day catching up on emails just, because that’s the only way I can talk to people now. And that’s a problem, so that’s not that great.

[12:17] And obviously, when I’m trying to write something, or I’m working on a script, or something that you sitting in front of a computer you’re trying not to be influence by  looking something up online. I mean we go had that experience having jump on wikipedia or something “what is this? No!’’. And then you end up clicking along this sort of trial and going down some rabbit hole and you, how did I get here? you know how do I get from? This concept completely unrelated concept the new end 2 hours of gone by. We can all relate to these experiences of distraction in to varying degrees, but I think not having a phone and it helps a little but they are the other side of this is that we live in a culture where this is just pervasive, so even my personal choice to not have a phone is still, I mean it doesn’t count for much. In fact, other people find it annoying, other people find it very annoying, that they can’t reach me on Facebook for a grant to take for example, or they can’t  text me, they can’t call me to tell me that they are running late too. It’s annoying for other people as well, just because of the way that these technologies have just taken over our whole lives.

Martin: [13:37] One more question.  This podcast is also about teamwork. Do you think, not having a mobile phone or smartphone, even if it says people. Do you think it benefits your work for example your firm I think it was really awesome and you did it without any budget or do you think the quality of your work becomes much better because you’re not using a smartphone?.

Jordan: [14:04] I mean, maybe that’s for other people to judge but I feel better in creating the work, if that’s and in fact, there some ways in which if I had my time again and did the film again outside even removed myself from being in a city while working on the film just to have really long the unbroken length of time to explore all of these really big complex topics. In a way that requires, that date format thinking that really unbroken so that contemplatively form of thinking that you have a lot of space to sort of organized things and formed a understandings with concept. I think it’s very helpful he had not to have interruptions from a phone to do that and also to bring the sort of analysis that I brought to the film from having a really contemplated space to think about things. But I guess it really did help, it really did help, to not to have as little distractions in his little to the technological interruptions as possible and maybe even being somewhere. Where I being connected not having an internet connection. Sped up the process. I could have done  price production in probably twice, half an email a times. I was that getting distracted by the internet over playing in email just example, “Hello world! I’m gonna be away for 2 months then”. If I could do that a couple times you have to pay your bills or you have to organize your work, completely unplug a shame.

Martin: [15:44] Do you think, where when you were traveling, I never could convince myself to leave my smartphone at home all, in just take a dumb phone when I was up  throughout Europe, do you think that enhance your experience because, I think, today people would consider you achieve brave for doing that even though,  we’re not living in any whiskey places or something?.

Jordan: [16:35] I really like that experience, I mean you get lost and  you have to sought of looking for cues in your environment you’ve try to find your way. I think you come to know a place differently if your constantly taking cues from your device. Yet, only people ask for that. I mean how do you get around if you don’t have a map? It was suit of more being post to learn, a little bit of the language and maybe embarrassingly talk to someone, and I mean how quiet? Does that 7 days, you have to ask someone or talk to somebody. First, we think about cause, I just look up direction google something. I mean in a way I found it really just personally  it made being someone where you’ve never been before really vivid. It was never been here before you completely lost you don’t know where you’re going. It’s Adventurous that perhaps maybe I wouldn’t have otherwise had, if I had an easy answer that came from my pocket or else.

[17:24] I don’t know if it’s brave, but I think it’s a different experience and I think I value that kind of experiences  to one that is suit mediated by technology. And I think what I’m trying to do with my feelings is really make people aware that there is. That experience still exist for us, that other experience can be more rewarding and more, I want to say more real in a sense, because you’re looking up here engaging with physical reality you’re forming relationships with people you’re not suit. Having this isolated, automize internal experience through your phone. It’s almost, It is definite experience right there’s one that’s right into her and  maybe I did by technology as opposed to one that’s not.

Martin: [18:21] Have you had any friends or people you met on your travels? where you share your experience? And maybe they try to do as well and share the experience with you somehow. Do you have any stories about that?.

Jordan:  [18:36] I wish! I have, I’m yet to meet someone who hasn’t had a phone, I met people through touring the film that I watch. And they’ve had a really goodresponse to it. Say for example, that I always felt I’m checking facebook to much and off to seeing your film and after learning that you know all of these drivers to get me psychologically addicted and to tap into my dyper men reward system, that’s annoys me and I wanna do that last and I wanna soon are regain my life. I wanna  have my time back. So I met people that have had that sort of response, so that told them I haven’t had a phone and they kind of wow!. Yet to make someone else that’s giving it up to the same extent I guess I haven’t met anyone else he hasn’t had a phone yet. For my cousin to his back in in Australia he hasn’t have a phone for awhile as well.  See only people that I know which is a bit saddened I guess really, so there’s anyone out there who haven’t had a phone maybe they can email me and we can share stories that’ll be great.

Martin: [19:47] Just I said. I’d wanted to that but there’s also this, anxiety lights all the studies headphones causing anxiety even though my way less stressed but as you said, it’s almost strange that we do not even ask for the way anymore I remember when I started playing soccer and we had to drive to without google maps and then we just knew it, yeah! of course by the village boss, but not exactly where the soccer field was. So we just to ask people on the street and this does not have many more.

Jordan: [20:27]  It seems that audio isn’t it seems that really weird chucky old weed these days, if you if you do that, it’s very strange.

Martin: [20:37] So what kind do you have for technology? In general, what is good use of technology? What is it bad use? What is okay? What is does  not okay in your eyes?.

Jordan: [20:50] I didn’t know,. I mean that’s a really good question. I don’t know if it’s for me to answer too, I think I can answer for myself, I would like  to really be using it a lot less even that I’m using it. Because I feel that, what’s behind? this is, that it is…

[21:15] I don’t know steps into the myth that I was mentioned before that we feel we’re in control is that once we’ve given out of us so much of our lives to these technologies, the technologies themselves become in charge.

[21:28] It’s not cool we’re just talking about the first thing we think about when we’re trying to get anywhere, is that we ask google so really what we’ve done is we’ve outsource memory and a special awareness. And sense of direction, I mean all of these things it’s just that in the hands of google now. And so I think back to my experience, an email and something on carrying a laptop around. I feel that I have this dream that one day I’ll be able to swim close all of those portals and just passed keep up technology entirely, and some return to this notion of true human communities.

[22:08]  It seems a pipe dream but, I need the other half of this, is that what it also requires is that, I can’t do this? I can’t do this by myself? I mean I can make all the changes that I on a personal level but it’s not going to change the society and culture that gives rise and emerges from technology that interplay between technology and society. It’s the sort of grand tension that I can solve make certain choices to be interacting with technology. But I think the bigger questions exists on the societal level, I come in, do we want to live in this world of society, where there is a company  google, doing the sort of things that google post and there is entities, facebook and apple doing the sorts of things that I do.

[22:57] And perhaps I think those questions or maybe be more important than and then  maybe on the personal level, I can choose to go to spend a certain amount of time, but that really doesn’t stop Facebook from doing it’s facebooking. So, I think one of the things I was trying to do with the film is bring back that sort of social awareness and bring us out about individualized, itemize to the personalized experiences to think about things like community.

[23:26] Play simple thing, asking people for directions. I mean it’s not really for me a human relationship with someone, but bringing back something that’s been lost and so perhaps, I’d like to say that on a grand of socialsky  really returning to community, and political organizing that’s effective to change the society and culture that we live in where we have, where we take back all of those things that we’ve been given away,

Martin: [23:57]  One thing that would be like. What do you think about people who want to make a living online maybe start some kind of online business, maybe doing a firm or do it some  kind of info product and they need the internet for work. What kind of technology would you recommend to them to used? if it’s not completely possible. I mean I’m selling my software and I want to build a business. I’m aware of all these issues but I still use the tool and I think it’s a huge benefit as well even though, it’s on the bigger scale. 

Jordan:[24:37] I understand. In fact, there many people in my life, I mean I have many friends and my girlfriend for example  and other people in my family and other artists that I’ve worked with and doesn’t out of community that I manage and organize back in Melton. And there’s so many people that I see that have run their own business. So, I have a freelance lifestyle  that requires them to use technology and I talk about one of the things it I would really like to leave facebook for example, but I can’t because I need it for work or the other people that I really like to get up such and such. But I need to use it to do things or something. So, I really understand that struggle. We will have to have some kind of make a living somehow. And there’s a tension between using technologies that you may not necessarily want to use just because you have to make money to pay to leave. I guess one of the ways you could make this slightly better would be to choose certain tool’s that are alternative tool’s that  supporting the direction for positive change. For example, if you don’t want to be on Facebook and you want  some kind of sexual organizing their open source tools out there that you could used.

[26:04] If you can convince other people to go to join you in that effort. And that’s very admirable. That I am friends with people that work on open source software. And there’s actually website called Prison Break so prison-break.org. Which will give you a list of so doesn’t comparison that this proprietary tools on the left and then there’s our consultant it is on the right that you can choose from. I think it does everything from,  process to office productivity software to email, to communications tools.Suit of platter or different facility that you use online that you can use up until tools with. So, I mean not very much encourage people to use all time to do tools, I think that’s a really good thing. I mean specialty tools that are open source and sort by builds with that intention and mindfulness. That they don’t exist to be magnetized and they don’t exist really sought of trying to do the opposite community behind them.

Martin: [26:04]  I talked about this in my interview with, Steve Lamberti creator of Self-Control. A software to block a website as well and he released source as well. Because, he’s making a living someone else but, as a software creator, I feel  if I would release my software for free or open-source it will be very hard to make a living out of that. Also the argument that, German language has if we are like the problem is not having, proprietary software. All the arguments that Richard Stallman the creator of Linux.

[28:05] The Linux kernel has, I think we have to find someway, some middle way to really make a living and to really create like making money  to get even better software. For example, a better tools but not having this huge surveillance system around them.  And especially not, this huge companies who have all the data in the world and I think it wasn’t in his book and arguments to leave social media right now. That you have these companies, their coat is better guarded than all the military code for example. 

Jordan: [28:47] That’s a transition that I would support. I think it is important for us to move away from these tools that really for up corporate power and trying to do something else. But I think, to form a long time year I’d rather prefer to live in a world where we can live in a culture in our society where there isn’t a google, where there isn’t facebook and where there isn’t techno – culture that exists right now. That is the big question. I mean, how do we transition from here to there? And I made one of those ways would be to move a stoves out of it as much as possible. Its commendable thing definitely.

Martin: [29:31] So, What final sots, do you have about to have and motivate people to get started or care more about the social and environmental implications of this techno – culture?.

Jordan: [29:44] Wow! That’s a big question. How to motivate people.Martin: [29:52] Basically, what will people gain if they move out and become more aware of this issue?.

Martin: [30:07] I hope they get to gain the richness of their life. I mean, it’s kind of a core that where we were talking about before. When you can choose a different set ofexperiences. Do we want to continue on the tractor we are, where we having all of these maybe.

[30:27] Maybe I need experiences media experiences through technology so instead of leaving their own lives vicariously through the screen, or do we want to live our lives as though they’re real. And have a real life. So, I hope that something to gain I’m in the second part of it in times of the environmental for consequences is that this techno culture has a huge environment to cost and as we see right now it’s things climate change. And we can talk about huge pressing issues such as, in waste or the working conditions for people assembling an iPhones in places like china and the foxconn factory for example. Where, you know? Many people getting leukemia and other cancers from being exposed to toxic chemicals that required to put our phones together or even the Minerals mining that is required to assemble. Scream’s the Colton-Minerals that come from.  In other places around there and then just environment costs there are minerals mining itself in China has completely designated the unproved environment. So, in terms of environment cost, there is really wealth to be cherish.

[31:49] To be for it,  if we really care about that by aligning ourselves with these issues as posed to the technology and our values with the natural world, with the real world without real selves, as opposed to the winds and needs of capitalism and the economic system in the techno – culture.  I mean, I hope that enough in and of itself would be to get people motivated. It’s if you are laugh and then laugh people that you love. The real well that your pot open. If that isn’t important to you and doesn’t motivate you to act, then I don’t know how to convince you.

Martin:    [32:39] It’s such a complex topic, was so many different facets and finding the right way to deal with it. In all personal life is so so difficult and everybody has to make its own decision what’s right for him, and  it’s difficult. I really like the part of your hone while you actually turn people with the camera and just from the reaction and afterwards he interviews where it says: it’s a week at of livius about the surveillance system that are around us all the time.

Jordan: [33:19] I should say that, that was me, that was this is person called Surveillance Cameraman. Which is great. I love that section of this by myself too cause that’s another myth that we can tap into. It’s a line we here all the time in response to these powerful companies having that sort surveillance apparatus is that, if I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear. And his work is really great because it shows that also myths it’s a lay as a policy. I mean what is the difference between, the city the complete proliferation of CCTV?. Being everywhere and not being so  normalise that we don’t even notice it anymore. And someone standing in front of your face filming you really creepily. The differences that does, a presence of it and it’s not normalize. And people’s reaction to it is totally justified. It’s why you filming me? Why are you doing this? Get out of my face go away. So, I think this work is really what he does mean. It’s very shaky it’s some serious way to talk about the Surveillance Culture and just, the right quick way to show how it’s been so metabolized into. 

[34:38] Interfacing with technology that we don’t even see it. As it we don’t even say that it exists many times, and even then, when we do recognize that  exist it’s not a problem, that’s fine it doesn’t affect me. So, I think that’s a really dangerous minds that to soft highlighting, that’s a great movie in the film so I love it, I love it, I love his work. He’s got other stuff online to Surveillance Cameraman.

Martin: [34:05] I will link to it and the resources. And the other final shots that you would  let listeners to know?

Jordan:[35:14] I mean I’m not sure because I just saying it feels  this is a very big complex topic. And it’s kind of hard sometimes I feel I don’t. It’s hard to talk about these things.

[35:37] It’s so hard to take out all the complexity sometime. So, I think I got a good job so far I’m pretty well today. I feel, I mean I put this phone out online for free. It’s something that I would to see other people use as it as a tool and resource for it for some critical thinking and to reflect on just not them not there. I mean definitely the right usage of technology in their own perceptions and understanding of technology, but also the largest social scale. I think it’s very important to be thinking about an acting on right now, to see the film, be used as a tool for the activism and to change and just for as a resource in that sense.

Martin: [36:25] How can people find out more about you? And where can they find out or check you out, check out your phone?.

Jordan: [36:31]  I have a website it’s called jore.cc. And you can watch the film online there for free, or if you search for it, using the search engine of your choice,  you can look for stare into the “Lights My Pretties” and I’m sure you can find it online it’s on many place on the online. The internet archive being one of them, you can find it there.

Martin:[37:00] Thank you very much Jordan  for the interview! and it was a pleasure to have you here on the podcast.

Jordan:[37:07] Thank you,  and thank you very much for your work!  What you doing, it’s great and thanks for having me on, it was a pleasure.

Show Notes

0:00:45 Why Jordan started to work on “Stare into the light my pretties already in 2009″0:02:27 Why digging deeper lead to taking a break from the project0:04:00 Why everything started during the Cold War0:05:30 What is the biggest misconception of using technology? 0:06:55 What we are missing is “the concentration of power”0:07:45 Why it’s the myth that everything online is free0:08:15 The price we pay0:09:10 The measures Jordan took to protect himself from technology 0:09:44 Why Jordan does not have a smartphone (even when traveling)0:11:35 Why email is still a problem for Jordan0:12:30 What happens when Jordan tries to sit down for work that we can all relate to0:13:15 Why his friends are annoyed because Jordan is hard to reach0:13:38 How does not having a smart impact the quality of his work. 0:15:00 Without internet and email his post production time would be half0:15:45 What’s Jordan’s experience traveling without a smart phone0:16:35 How to get around without a map0:17:04 The adventure of getting lost  0:17:30 What Jordan tries to accomplish with his film0:18:20 Are there more people like you?0:18:50 Astonishing reaction’s to Jordan’s film0:19:50 Social anxiety and finding your way to a soccer field0:20:35 What kind of technology is “okay to use”0:21:00 Why Jordan would like to use technology even less0:21:50 Jordan’s pipe dream 0:22:22 The questions we have to ask about society 0:23:50 How to make a living online and what kind of technology should you use then?0:25:00 The tools you can use0:26:00 Jordan’s recommendation prison-break.org 0:27:40 Why it’s very hard to make a living distributing open source software0:29:40 What will we gain when we learn to deal with technology0:30:49 The environmental impact of technology00:33:00 The best part of Jordan’s film00:35:00 Final thoughts on this big and complex topic    

About Jordan Brown 

Jordan Brown is an activist, artist, musician, and award-winning film-maker whose work focuses on the interface between the dominant culture and the real impact on people, society and the environment. The social and environmental implications of the pervasive technoculture is a current focus of Jordan’s work—specifically, research and development for a film project taking a critical view of today’s culture of screens, the ‘society of the spectacle,’ and the widespread fascination with simulacra facilitated by technology while the real world burns. 

You can help Jore to tour this film around the globe, to get it in front of audiences, to ask important questions about the world we find ourselves in where the average adult spends the majority of their waking hours in front of some sort of screen or device and support his fundraising campaign here.

References from the show

Prism Break – Software Recommendations Interview with the creator of Self-Control app for Mac

Self-Control App

Block Websites On Google Chrome And Other BrowsersJaron LanierSurveillance Camera Man Jordan’s websiteDocumentary “Stare into the light my pretties”

​

Thanks for Tuning In!

Thanks so much for being with us this week. ​

Do you have some feedback you’d like to share? Please leave a note in the comments section below!

If you enjoyed this episode , please share it with your friends by using the social media buttons you see at the bottom of the post.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the show in your favorite app here to get automatic episode updates for “The FindFocus Podcast!”

And, finally, please take a minute to leave us an honest review.

It really me, help to improve the show and I make it a point to read every single one of the reviews we get.

Please leave a review right now in the comments.

Thanks for listening!